I know, I've posted about some of this before. This was in large part in response to Banana Queen, who said that you don't have to believe anything in particular about Jesus to be a Muslim -- you just have to believe the shahada, in response to my comment that I could be Muslim if it weren't for what I call "the Jesus debate". BQ, please forgive me if I don't do your very interesting comments justice! (I'm so pleased that the quiz link I posted is generating discussion! YAY!)
The belief about Jesus is most often the biggest dividing point between Islam and Christianity. As much as I love 2:136 in the Qur'an - it's a gorgeous verse, and definitely a favorite - it does place Jesus firmly in the Prophet category. While that is dandy with Christians - Jesus as prophet, agreed - in Islam the Christian view of Jesus as the Son of God (as taught by my church) or God in human form is totally off. "Worship the Creator, not the creation", etc. There are other differences, too, but Jesus' role is the biggie.
In what I think to be an interesting contradiction of...something... I do believe in the Christian faith with Jesus as the sacrifice for sin, but I also believe that God is generous in ways we can't begin to fathom, and being God, He has no limitations on what He can do, including forgiving us for our wrongdoings out of love for us, with no need for a sacrificial Lamb in order to do so. Doesn't requiring Jesus to be sacrificed in order for God to be able to forgive us for sin and allow us into Heaven impose a limitation on God -- that He can't forgive and reward whom He pleases, as He pleases, through His Own power? It seems so to me.
Regarding "Son of God" or "God as man", I've gotten the "you're going to Hell" look from people several times - especially the evangelist Pentecostal types - before when discussing religion and how my church taught that Jesus was the Son of God, not God Himself. : P
The Church of Christ isn't so much "traditional", I suppose, as it is literal. At least the one I was raised in was. That means all the scary stuff in Revelations, as well as all the other stuff sometimes taught as metaphorical in other denominations, was, is, and will be real. That there will be multi-headed dragons, etc, in a very physical sense.
Well, this was fun, but I need to be off to bed. I meant to go to sleep an hour ago, but you smart ladies lure me back to the debate. : D Continue on!
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Hi Heather, read your post with interest. May I offer my 2 cents worth? You said something's about Jesus, Christianity and Islam that I disagree with, based upon the texts of both beliefs. Here's the thing; can you handle a discussion where the opposite view goes against your viewpoint?
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome to disagree, as long as you do it nicely. : ) My posts aren't irrefutable proofs by some theologian, but merely my own opinions and interpretations of each faith based upon my own studies. I know that there's always going to be someone who disagrees with me, and that's okay. People even of the same religion rarely (if ever) agree on everything in that religion.
ReplyDeleteSallam (peace) dear sister Heather. It always warms my heart to see a fellow human struggling to search for the truth. May Allah (or God or whatever you wish to call the One True Creator) guide you and bless you.
ReplyDeleteThought I'd share with you a link to make a modest attempt to help you in your search:
Hi again. I find with some Muslim sites that when I try to argue my case from sources, Bible, Qur'an or Hadith, Muslims don't like it and block posters who do likewise.
ReplyDeleteI only argue from sources. My personal views never come into it. if you've read these writings you'll know there are things in there that Muslims do not like discussing. As I say, I'm only into arguing from what's already out there. People have tried to convert me to their beliefs. I challenge them to prove their case from their books, not opinions.
I take the opposing view to yours on s:2.136. Firstly, it refers to persons from the Bible by name, but, by their character profile in the Bible and Qur'an, they are not the same people.
S:2.136 "We make no distinction between any of them,.." If this is so, why do Muslims not riot and threaten when Jesus or any other prophet is mocked? Why do they issue fatwa's on anyone who disrespects Muhammad? Why is it when a person says Allah is not the God of the Bible Muslims don't get so riled up, but when Muhammad's character is questioned peoples lives are in danger?
If, "God is generous in ways we can't begin to fathom," means He will contradict His Law, then that's not the way of the biblical God.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
If this statement is true all other ways are false. If it's not true, Jesus was a liar!
Why did Jesus bother dying in such a terrible way if there are many other paths to eternal life?
The "interesting contradiction" you 'see', what's the basis for it? It sounds nice, if you're into the 'all roads lead to Rome' way of thinking, but Jesus ruled this out.
God has no limitations except the ones He places upon Himself.
Let's say you were the boss of a company you founded. You hire some people and tell them the work pattern for your company. You decided to place certain restrictions, not only upon your employees, but you too must abide by those same rules. If say, there's a no smoking policy and you fire someone who broke that rule. You then decide to smoke when and wherever, you'll, at the very least be a hypocrite.
Matt.7:13 Enter God's kingdom through the narrow gate. The gate is large and the road is wide that lead to death and hell. Many people go that way.
Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that may seem right to a man. But in the end it leads to death.
I've had Muslims get upset about these statements, but ask them if they believe Islam is the only way of salvation and you'll see a double-standard.
Q. Why do you think Jesus, being Jesus, did what He did at Calvary?
"Regarding "Son of God" or "God as man", I've gotten the "you're going to Hell" look from people several times - especially the evangelist Pentecostal types - before when discussing religion and how my church taught that Jesus was the Son of God, not God Himself."
What do you understand Son of God to mean? I have an interesting way of tackling this subject, but I'll await your response.
"The Church of Christ isn't so much "traditional", I suppose, as it is literal. At least the one I was raised in was. That means all the scary stuff in Revelations, as well as all the other stuff sometimes taught as metaphorical in other denominations, was, is, and will be real. That there will be multi-headed dragons, etc, in a very physical sense."
The symbolic parts aren't that difficult to work out. A multi-headed dragon is symbolic of something. Again, depending on how this goes, I have an interesting take on that also.
I enjoyed your post, Heather. I'm glad your quiz generated discussion too. I am also enjoying the comments.:)
ReplyDelete